Blythe Brumleve:
0:45
Welcome into another episode of everything is logistics, a podcast for the thinkers and freight. I am your host, Blythe Brumleve, and we are presented by SPI logistics. And as most of us know, the world is a beneficiary of air, sea and land methods of shipping. But what if we add another layer to that mix, a fourth transportation layer that standardizes shipping in space with a system of distributed warehouses all over the globe, enter inversion space, where founder Justin Fiaschetti is leading a team of 25 that wants to be the globe's next shipping container, but this time for space deliveries anywhere in the world in under an hour. Sounds a little crazy, right? But also it sounds kind of freaking cool. Grace Sharkey and I are talking about this startup who as soon as October 2024 is launching Ray, their autonomous reentry vehicle to deliver cargo from space in as little as an hour. Is inversion space the next Amazon who are their customers, and is this even realistic? Grace and I discuss the little space guy is a perfect segue, exactly into our next topic, and that is my source to porch story, and so I want to see what your reaction would be to a company that says, I want to be the shipping container that is making space a transportation layer for earth, and the mission is to be that fourth transportation layer for Earth. So air, land, sea, they want to be the delivery companies in space, no in space, with warehouses in satellite orbit all over the globe, that they can deliver cargo to you in under an hour that is being built as the next shipping container I
Grace Sharkey:
2:48
do laugh at it is because right now we're struggling to get, like two guys off of
Blythe Brumleve:
2:55
Boeing is struggling, which is a government funded contractor who is just not innovating and not doing a very good job. And so companies like SpaceX have to come in and save the day, because they're privately held. And they can reiterate, well, they can't do it, apparently that, you know the a lot of issues with the with that Boeing Dragon, not Dragon capsule, because Dragon capsule is SpaceX. But yeah, the Boeing capsule they already brought back. They brought that back first before they brought the humans back. So what was supposed to be, what like a week long mission is now turned into something that's going to be like six months. So shout out to Boeing for being the use case of why they're not a they're technically a government contractor. But that's sort of the issue with a lot of the landscape, especially in department of defense budgets and even NASA budgets, is that you have these companies that are just so used to getting a paycheck and they get unlimited funds, there's no incentive, to reiterate, to be efficient, to be lean. And so what you'll watch, and especially if you watch the the wild, wild space documentary, I just did an episode on this, but go watch that documentary. It's on max slash HBO. But if you go watch that documentary, it really highlights the parallel between private companies and the companies that are, you know, just ingrained in NASA and have been like bowling for years, but, you know, a SpaceX or Rocket Lab kind of comes onto the scene, and they are really re are revolutionizing, I should say, in a real way, not just some marketing gimmick copy, but they are revolutionizing space travel to where reusable rockets have changed the game. And because you can have reusable rockets, it brings the price down to travel into space tremendously. So with all of that said, I want to talk about inversion space. They are the new warehouse. What they are building is a component. Instead of kind of going through, I want to bring up one of their videos, which hold on, but they are called inversion space. And so what they're essentially doing is what they would want is around 30 of these warehouse locations in space to store goods. They start by funding, or getting their funding and working with the Department of Defense disaster relief for the idea that they have a certain amount of goods that are stored in this warehouse, and that if you need it, if you need some of these items, you. Whether it's a disaster going on, hikers who are lost that need supplies, you know, a shipwreck on an island, or something like that, all of these different components. Or you need a, you know, drones that need to be shipped, you know, to a, you know, secure location. That is the the goal of what inversion space is trying to do is create the the set of, you know, a distributed, distributed warehouse model, where you have the same kind of goods, very similar to Amazon, the same kind of goods, and all of your warehouses located all across the globe. So then that when someone needs them, the Department of Defense, or maybe someone's in trouble or disaster happens, that they can take their vehicles, that they're fully autonomous vehicles that have this cargo, and that they can go to that position around the globe and be able to drop that cargo right where you need it. And so in under an hour, that is the promise. They have their first launch scheduled for this October, and the vehicle is called Ray and so I'm going to bring up a quick video to play. So
Grace Sharkey:
6:49
I want to see what this looks like.
Blythe Brumleve:
6:53
Let me I'll bring this full screen. Okay, let's play it this quick, one minute video.
Grace Sharkey:
7:07
I All these cute manufacturers. Oh, wow,
Blythe Brumleve:
7:41
that's one of the capsules that they're dropping as a dress. I
Grace Sharkey:
8:05
it so that, like, black box at the end would like, hold it good, and it would like fall from space.
Blythe Brumleve:
8:17
So if you are just listening, and you didn't, you weren't able to watch the video. So they're basically, they're, they're building everything themselves, except for what's already available on the market. So the founder, whose name is Justin fiaschetti, he has a company in version space that's about 25 people at the company. So they're very lean operations. They focus on sort of the Andrew funding model, which is Andrew's another sort of private company that is proving concepts first before they try to do business with the government. So for folks who may not know, typically, you know, a lot of the big contractors that work for Department of Defense, Lockheed Martin comes to mind. There's a, you know, a few others North Northrop Grumman is another one, but these companies have been doing business with the government for years. They they've had these contracts locked down. There's not really an incentive for them to be as lean as a startup. That's not, you know, any shade whatsoever, one way or another, to each company. But startups typically run leaner, and they have to prove, you know, sort of profitability a little bit sooner than some of their counterparts. Now you can, kind of, they are funded. I think they their first round was only 10 million and I say only with obviously salt, but you're going to space like 10 million a drop in the bucket, compared to someone like a Boeing that's, you know, wasting billions of dollars on equipment that doesn't work, yeah, but yes. So, so their goal is to be the shipping container, but in space. And that little capsule that you saw, those are the capsules that have the goods inside of them. And so they're the way that they sort of pitch it is that we have the same products in each of our warehouses, in each of these capsules, not that, you know, they have probably disaster relief supplies in one of the capsules, and, you know, different supplies drones, maybe in another capsule, and that's part of that one warehouse. So they want around 30 of these warehouses all across the globe. And so then that way, working with their customers, working with their partners, like the Department of Defense, they can prove the model. First, they can prove the usability, the profitability or not, not necessarily profitability, but cost structure, cheaper. Costs dependent on the need. Now, for somebody like the Department of Defense, they don't have to now, you know, have a company that jumps through all of these hoops and hopes to become a defense contractor. They can just see in the market, okay, Andrew roll is building, you know, this type of product we like the way that looks and that function. So we're going to go and buy some stuff from them. That is the same model that inversion space is using as well. So they're proving the model first. And so they're hopping on these different cargo missions from SpaceX, from Rocket Lab, companies like that, where they can put their cargo on those missions, send it up into space, and then do do a test. And so when that video, that was one of their tests, by taking one of those capsules that have the goods inside of it, and then focusing on the, you know, the wherever it is in the globe that somebody is going to need those supplies, yeah, so that 30 cargo spots around the globe that acts as a distributed warehouse, there was a lot of just really good takeaways. Going back to the this tweet, where they kind of break down a lot of these different functions, it's their next big launch is happening in October with their their device called Ray, and that device is going to be their first test run of this concept, of this product. So when Ray goes up into space, then they'll really be able to test it. So in the in the video that we played, they're testing that capsule from high altitude planes. The next test will be testing it delivery from space, and that's coming up in October. Are you in freight sales with a book of business looking for a new home, or perhaps you're a freight agent in need of a better partnership. These are the kinds of conversations we're exploring in our podcast interview series called The freight agent trenches, sponsored by SPI logistics. Now I can tell you all day that SPI is one of the most successful logistics firms in North America who helps their agents with back office operations such as admin, finance it and sales, but I would much rather you hear it directly from SPI freight agents themselves. And what better way to do that than by listening to the experienced freight agents tell their stories behind the how and the why they joined SPI hit the freight agent link in our show notes to listen to these conversations, or if you're ready to make the jump, visit SPI three, pl.com, I'm really surprised that no one else in our industry has covered this yet. Hopefully that will, you know, we'll have some more coverage afterwards, because this, this. I really love this concept, and I can't believe that, you know, there are people out here that are thinking this way, that one of their taglines is making space a transportation layer for Earth. So they have a really slick website, not that that, you know,
Grace Sharkey:
13:40
kind of has a nice website.
Blythe Brumleve:
13:43
So this is, let me pull back up. I'll start at the top, but it says making space a transportation layer. You can kind of see that that capsule that that's right on it and or that's right on the homepage, with the little parachute of the item being delivered. And so basically, these items are going to be stored in space until somebody needs them, and then what happens after when somebody needs them, they put in the call, they find out which warehouse is the closest to the location that they need it dropped. So the inversion space team will go in, they'll put the coordinates, and then after they put in the coordinates, they're done so that all of the tracking is supplied to whatever customer is making that order. Their use cases right now is Department of Defense and then disaster relief. And so once they prove the model with those two markets, then it kind of opens up the door to more of like the privatization so, you know, different goods. Now he does kind of theorize that this could be a concept that you know, and maybe, like, five to 10 years, when you order something from Amazon that it's actually getting dropped in your backyard. I don't really think that that's going to be feasible, because we crazy to even think about, you know, the expenses of that. But as we do this, more as more private companies become involved in space, then it creates a situation where there's incredibly more demand. There's much more supply. Prices come down that. You know, the cost to book even a flight right now, to get into space is around $25,000 but that is a way it is coming down 10 years ago,
Grace Sharkey:
15:20
yeah, it's in order to Caprio was just kicking himself right now. It is crazy to like, I'm like, reading this, I'm looking at the site, and it's crazy to think that, you know, we might be writing about the tech innovation behind a re entry vehicles, you know, like, and
Blythe Brumleve:
15:38
that's another thing that they're building, too, that the other product that they're building is called Arc, and it's a fully a. Autonomous vehicle inside of space. So they can kind of propel that vehicle for both reusability and re entry. So then that way they can keep reusing, and if you can reuse it, and that also brings down your prices. And so these are just really, really the less than one hour global delivery
Grace Sharkey:
16:07
they i I'm sure it'll go down, but if you go back up to the arc, it says mission duration less than five. Oh, so it probably means it can be in space for about five years. Okay, cool. You're going to get your item just three and a half years.
Blythe Brumleve:
16:25
But that lady accuracy within 50, yeah, of the GPS coordinates is just crazy. So there was a couple other little notes. So
Grace Sharkey:
16:35
it's like, when we are, like, sending letters back to our packages, back to our parents from Mars in like, 40 years, like it's going to get that gonna get back my
Blythe Brumleve:
16:45
only, I guess, concerns. Yes, a few concerns. So I'm trying to get inversion. I'm trying to get Justin on the show. So I reached out to him on LinkedIn and Twitter. Haven't heard back yet. So maybe this segment will help in that regard. I'm going to send it over to their PR team. Yeah, I see you writing notes over there. Are you trying to No, I'm somebody to beat me to the punch.
Grace Sharkey:
17:14
I'm going. I'm looking up right now. They're investors. Oh,
Blythe Brumleve:
17:20
they're a Y Combinator and so they're yc. I'm not sure if they're actual investors, but they're a YC funded company, or a YC alum, but that's how they they got their, you know, sort of initial funding round of ten million which feels like peanuts when you talk you're talking about, like, space investments the only concern. So, you know, as I'm learning more about, like, space logistics and things like that, there are no government bodies in space, where it's like a from a regulatory standpoint, it's kind of a very much a Wild Wild West, like there's no rules, there's no laws, there's no regulations. It's just kind of like a loose set of agreements that we're not exactly sure if, like other countries are going to follow. One example in particular is Russia wanted to test one of their missiles, and so for a satellite that they already had in orbit that wasn't working anymore, Russia decides we're going to send a missile up to do a missile test, which is essentially just like a show of force. So they do this missile test, they blow up their own satellite, but it sends all of these pieces of debris into orbit, and so you're creating, like, this debris field that's going to impact all of the other I mean, the global, like space community, apparently, was, like, just pissed off that this happened because of all of the issues that we're going to or secondary issues that Were going to be caused because Russia wanted to do a missile test. And so when you think about the debris field that they created from that one missile test, just think if, like, you piss off the wrong country, or you piss off the wrong person. There's also like companies that, you know, I talked about this also in the NASA series that I dropped, that there's companies now that monitor the debris and so you can get like visibility into debris fields, so you can maneuver your satellites around it, so they don't get damaged by a screw that is traveling 1000s of miles an hour, that if it hits Your satellite, it's going to severely damage that satellite. So my main concern is with these warehouse locations, with the focus on the Department of Defense, what happens if one of these things gets attacked? What happens if you're storing something that's not necessarily a drone, it's, you know, some kind of explosive devices, things like that, that you're storing, and somebody else gets a little mad about it, or, oops, my satellite ran into this warehouse, and it causes it to explode. Like, what happens? Then, if there's no regulatory bodies in space, who is at fault and who does that affect, if that debris field doesn't actually stay in orbit, and that debris falls to earth and kills somebody like, what happens then? Who's responsible? None of these things are being answered yet, because these are all completely new problems. There's there's one stat that sort of like blows me away, is that we have about 8000 satellites right now in lower Earth orbit. In the next 10 years, it's projected to be 200,000 and so if we have all of those sort of moving parts going on in space, all it takes is one bad actor, one bad actor, to mess it all up and to ruin weather satellites, GPS satellites. It's communications, anything like that, that, you know, our life is powered on Earth by satellites, and so one bad actor messes up and does something, I should unload something. It's, it's, it's crazy secondary effects that could happen from that
Grace Sharkey:
21:02
at the Samsara event. We're talking to the girl who's, like, VP of product for that space company that and she was like, there's some really crazy, I don't want to call it conspiracy theories, but like, like, end of the world type of theories around just the space trash alone, and, and, oh yeah, you know me. I was, like, already fangirling over this girl. Yeah? Well, I had one of my banker buddies with me and, and I'm like, listen to this girl like she so I should connect you guys, and maybe we can do an episode with her. Yeah, she seems like I had brought up space trash, because I was trying to explain to him, like, you know, there's an app I use to look at the stars and stuff like that, find planets, and you can actually see all the trash satellites and stuff, and wow, in space. And she was brought it up as, like, a huge deal. And like, looked like it was like a doom I was like a doomsday event situ, so I 100% agree, and I and we have someone working on the inversion interview for you. So hopefully, yes, for, for those out there, you'll, you'll be able to have that episode soon. Come
Blythe Brumleve:
22:22
on, Justin, get on the show. We want some of these questions answered, which I'm sure that he's, he's, he's thought about, because he does seem like a very thoughtful founder with the way that he is approaching this. So I that is one, but he hasn't done very I've only, I tried, you know, Googling, YouTube, that kind of thing. He's only done a couple interviews. And so I definitely want to hear more about their plans on becoming, you know, that next shipping container, because if you can standardize some of this stuff, this could be the next, sort of, like the the box, you know, revolution that, you know that the container that revolutionized global trade, maybe this is that next thing that's going to revolutionize global trade costs continue to come down. I mean, obviously this is not something that's probably going to happen in the next five years, but it might happen in the next 10 years, especially with the growth of space. And you know, the we just saw the the Polaris mission the other day, when you know, you have four, four just civilians that you know, go on a commercial flight and do it get to do a spacewalk. So these things are happening at a rapid pace, and I don't know that a lot of people are aware of everything that's going on. So I am going to link to a couple of the interviews that I found just to prep for this story, because I couldn't believe it hasn't been covered. But if you're calling yourself the next shipping container, this, this, to me, needs, you know, definitely some more eyeballs on it. And I would love to know, you know, from the shipping community on what they think the likelihood of something like this will mean, because there's a lot of debate also around the supersonic planes, and you know that that was supposed to be sort of the next wave of revolutionizing delivery is with these super or hypersonic planes. And so with hypersonic planes, or, I guess, comparing, comparing it to inversion space, Justin was saying in one of the interviews that there's a lot of complexities with landing the craft. And so if you can remove the landing of a plane, then it removes a lot of that complexity. Because there's another company called, like dream scope, or Dream Dream site, or something like that, that was trying to do something a little similar to inversion space, but they are focusing on sort of the plane model, and the landing of it is proving to be much more complex. And so for Justin's company inversion, they are focusing on these capsules that they can just parachute in and drop in, and it creates significantly less barriers for that cargo to get delivered. Brokering success demands a battle ready strategy Ty TMS equips freight brokers with the ultimate battle station for conquering a tough market. With Tai, brokers gain access to a comprehensive platform where raid intelligence and quote history converge on a single screen. It's not just a page, it's a strategic command center designed to help brokers win. Thai equips your team with all of the data they need to negotiate with confidence and allows them to communicate directly with carriers and customers from a simple control base, revolutionize the way your brokers perform by giving them a competitive advantage with Thai TMS. For more info, go to Tai dash software.com backslash battle stations, and we also have a link for. Are you in the show notes to sign up for a demo?
Grace Sharkey:
25:49
So crazy. Yeah, uh, looks like he was at SpaceX before, too. So, yep, interesting stuff.
Blythe Brumleve:
25:56
I know it is, uh, going back to that wild, wild space documentary, a lot of these, like the same, they come from, like, a lot of the same companies I'm really interested to hear. Because I, after watching that documentary, I became such a fan of Robert Peake. Think that's his name. He's the CEO and founder of Rocket Lab. And now I like, I follow, yeah, it is Robert, Robert Beck, or Peter Beck. That's his name. Peter Beck, got it finally, but Peter Beck apparently interviewed over at NASA and wanted to work for them, because he was such a space enthusiast, and he said that everybody at NASA was talking about all the things they used to do, they weren't talking about the things that they wanted to do in the future. So that cost him to not take the job at NASA and to start up Rocket Lab. And now Rocket Lab has over 50 completed reusable rocket missions or takeoffs, versus, like a Blue Origin or Astra, is another company that they're trying to do, you know, reusable rockets, very much like SpaceX, but they're, you know, they're still running into, you know, some, a lot of issues, which you'll see in in that documentary, much less, not not so much on Blue Origin, but more on that other company. But Rocket Lab kind of just feels like they're being led by someone who is like a mad scientist, but with a good soul. That's what it feels, yeah, to me, like he's just, he's doing it just because he's, like, been a space nerd his whole life, and he's building rockets in, literally, his backyard in New Zealand and launching them. And so it's just it's an awesome kind of thing to see. Highly recommend following them on social media too, because they just have a lot of really cool stuff, and they've done over 50 successful missions using reusable rockets. And so that's another company to kind of keep an eye on. But that documentary is great, and I love the parallels that they were talking about, just from the privatization of space and getting into space. And, you know, sort of the the name of it, wild wild space leads to, you know, sort of the wild wild west and sort of the lawlessness of it, and who's going to be making these rules and regulations, and are they going to have a responsibility to follow those rules and regulations like it has? It's going to have to be a global effort, because it's not just the United States and Russia that have space programs anymore. I mean, we were talking India has a very strong space program. Japan has one that does, just to name a few of these different companies that are, you know, trying to get their stuff into space and trying to to ride this ride this wave. Well, you know, it's,
Grace Sharkey:
28:37
it's interesting too, because I don't know if you got a chance, and by the time this comes out, it won't be from yesterday, but probably the past week. But I don't know if you got a chance to see the Oprah special last night on AI. Oprah did like, you know, Oprah, she loves to do a special on things, and she did a really good AI special with Bill Gates and the chatgpt guy, and also, just like historians as well. And, yeah, open. And, you know, something that they brought up, and it kind of reminds me of this exact situation is like, you know, with the invention of the car, because of how slowly that moved, they're able to, at the same time, create regulations and rules and driver license protocol and and street signs and all that, while that that technology grew, and what they're struggling a little bit with, AI and I kind of see the same thing with space is because it's like ramping so fast because it's being introduced and it's it's able to be used like Anyone with a credit card or even get a free version can use chat GBT today, it's hard to figure out the process, like, where it's moving faster than the regulation, right? And, and that's it just reminds me the same problem with with space. It's like, it's not that any of this technology is bad, but it goes back to, like, your fear of like, okay, well, all this stuff could be really useful and helpful, but you know, who is going to be standing behind it? Are we going to have to build like a space or like regulatory body with different countries and but again, we are already, like, discovering ways to do the things that that regulatory body will look over. So it's, it's like, we're, we're running behind the the technology, instead of, like, moving along with it at the same time and building the rules that go with it too. And so just an interesting thing to think about, like, how, how can we slow it down? Down, slow down the adoption, so that we can build the cyber security measures to keep AI safe, and, again, make sure that it's, it's being utilized in the correct way. So I same thing. I think we have a problem with space, which does, yeah, make me nervous as well as I'm sure it does you Yeah,
Blythe Brumleve:
31:00
and it's, it's too some of these things start off with the best of intentions, yes, then it gets evolved into, you know. So I think Planet Labs was another one of the companies that was featured in the wild world space documentary, or where they talk, they started off as an imaging company. And right now, even Justin says, The only way you're going to make money in space, or the only things making money in space right now is imaging and internet. And so he hopes to, you know, be that, you know, sort of, you know, storage company for companies in space for a variety of reasons. That's sort of the ultimate goal. But like Planet Labs, for example, they started off with imaging because they wanted to stop deforestation and be able to take images of the earth. But then that evolves into, well, who's you? Who's really going to pay for, you know, sort of deforestation, but somebody who will pay for imaging is monitoring military movements, monitoring equipment movements, monitoring, you know, disasters and things like that. So
Grace Sharkey:
32:01
same way I need to get clearance from the what is it FAA? And the only way to do that is to make it for medical supplies. Yep. So that's why a lot of those startups say so, yeah, it's, it's interesting. That's what. That's what makes the whole like inventor slash investment like arena really fun, because there is this, like, the speed aspect of it that's like, something I'm sure a lot of people for Craig fuller talk about, right? It's like, not just about, like, you know, building something, but building it fast that you're, you know, beating everyone to the punch, but also finding that, how are we going to make it profitable right at the same time? So, yeah,
Blythe Brumleve:
32:40
and probably watch. So speed profitability, obviously, you know, matters for a lot of companies. But then also, when you're talking about space and you're talking about all these additional complexities, it makes, you know, sort of the rules and the regulations, and then who decides those rules and regulations, and then it makes it all a little bit more, I guess, juicy to to participate in, or to, I guess, kind of hope for the best, but plan for the worst, because that was another to go back to that that documentary, they said all of the problems that are here on earth will follow us to space. And so how are we going to address these things? And they these are big questions that need to be answered, and I don't think that, you know, inversion space has to answer them, but I do think that they have to answer what are the contingency plans if something gets attacked? If you're storing goods for the Department of Defense, I think it's a reasonable question to ask of if you're storing weapons and things like that, who's protecting that cargo number one in space, and then what happens if, uh, oopsie, you know, like a Russia now we need to do a missile test. Or, yeah, right
Grace Sharkey:
33:47
explodes up in the air. Yeah, right.
Blythe Brumleve:
33:50
So that there's a lot of there's a lot of questions I think that still need to be answered, and they, anytime you have innovations like this, new questions are going to come up. So I'm sure that they have, you know, answers for some of these, and then there are going to be more questions that pop up that they probably never thought about. And so how they address it in the future, and how I think space logistics addresses it in the future will, will maybe lead to, you know, one hour deliveries. And you know, you don't have to pay Amazon Prime anymore. You can just pay your version
Grace Sharkey:
34:21
space trying to remember, like, how long? Oh, hello, everyone.
Blythe Brumleve:
34:26
She said, this show is done.
Grace Sharkey:
34:29
Say, Hello cow. Um, well, if it makes you feel better, he was just staring into the space's eye for like, the past two minutes. So I'm like, I don't know, contemplating the hard questions. Sounds like, I remember the Red Bull guy who, like, fell from space. Like, what? Like, that took him, like, 20 minutes to fall. So, like, for the last 20 minutes of our delivery, we'll just watch
Blythe Brumleve:
34:54
it hit you in the head, and then who's
Grace Sharkey:
34:57
totally on its way. I can see it right there.
Blythe Brumleve:
35:04
I hope you enjoyed this episode of everything is logistics, a podcast for the thinkers in freight, telling the stories behind how your favorite stuff and people get from point A to B. Subscribe to the show. Sign up for our newsletter and follow our socials. Over at everything is logistics.com and in addition to the podcast, I also wanted to let you all know about another company I operate, and that's digital dispatch, where we help you build a better website. Now, a lot of the times, we hand this task of building a new website or refreshing a current one off to a coworker's child, a neighbor down the street, or a stranger around the world, where you probably spend more time explaining the freight industry than it takes to actually build the dang website. Well, that doesn't happen at Digital dispatch. We've been building online since 2009 but we're also early adopters of AI automation and other website tactics that help your company to be a central place, to pull in all of your social media posts, recruit new employees and give potential customers a glimpse into how you operate your business. Our new website builds start as low as$1,500 along with ongoing website management, maintenance and updates starting at $90 a month, plus some bonus freight marketing and sales content similar to what you hear on the podcast. You can watch a quick explainer video over on digitaldispatch.io, just check out the pricing page once you arrive and you can see how we can build your digital ecosystem on a strong foundation. Until then, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'll see you all real soon and go jags.
Unknown:
36:47
You
